Follow the Breadcrumbs: Ten Years of Service

Shen & Shenanigans | Episode 2: Follow the Breadcrumbs: Ten Years of Service
Conversation between Dr. James and Devynne
Recorded January 2025

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INTRODUCTION

Devynne: This is part two of a conversation Dr. James and I had about a week or so ago. We hit a little bit of a switch in topics, so we thought it would be best to present it in two different pieces. This particular video is going to get heavier into the work that we do specifically with veterans and military, sharing some personal stories there.

We’re also getting into how that has influenced our work within the acupuncture world for veterans, mental health and mental emotional health. They’re kind of separate but together and overlapping. And then how all of that is connected to some of the life work that we do. We get to tell a little bit more of our personal journeys through school and all of the things.

This conversation was a little less of us trying to figure out what we’re doing and what we’re talking about, and really settled into some neat topics that are very close to home. So I hope you enjoy. Let us know if you have anything else you’re curious about.

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VETERANS CARE: THE ORIGIN STORY

Devynne: One of the things we’ve done for years that was super important to us as we started was our work with our veterans. I think it’s fun to tell that story. We tell that story when people come in, but we should talk about why it’s so personal to us.

My father was a veteran with a disability. He had his own experience with things. Our school down in Florida, the Academy for Five Element Acupuncture, would probably be disappointed if we didn’t honor that. They hosted regular veterans clinics where they would do some points in the ears for what they advertise as a PTSD clinic. I think it does more than that. It’s helpful for pain and stress and all sorts of things.

When we opened our first office in South Carolina, it was important that we did that for people. And it’s free. It’s always been free. If you need it, come in. We had folks that we would see. There’s a nice set of needles that are good for lots of things, but it is a generalized treatment that can be beneficial.

We expanded the offerings even more in our second space, and when we got here, it’s one of those things we continue to do. We’ve expanded the offerings a little bit with the addition of more space, added in some mind-body practice, a little bit of yoga offering. But with all of those things, we get to talk about why sometimes and touch on why that’s important to us.

It’s been over ten years, right? The origin of our clinic was like 2014. It’s cool to say that we’ve been doing something that regular for that long and we really haven’t ever taken a break in the offering of it. It’s fluctuated over the years between bi-weekly and monthly based on what was ebbing and flowing at the time. But it’s really something we’ve offered every month, pretty regular since we opened, which I think is just super cool.

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FAMILY CONNECTION TO SERVICE

Devynne: Both my grandparents served, and I’ve got a couple uncles that have served. For Grandpa Barry, it was really powerful to watch him go through that process. I got a different version of him being his granddaughter. But we did get to witness him, I hesitate to use the word heal, but heal and make peace with a lot of things that he had been through, gone through, done in his life before he passed.

Much to grandma’s surprise, it was just an interesting witness of the possibility. And because we knew him personally, it just connected it in a different way. He was getting personalized treatments from the president of her school at the time. That was like his origin story.

When we were in school, part of our rotation was doing those clinics and participating in them. We had people that showed up every week for the ear points and you got to see it help. People showed up lighter and brighter.

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THE IMPACT OF THEIR APPROACH

Devynne: I think the clinics have been a nice gateway for private treatments. It’s never intended to be that. You show up to as many free clinics as you want, and if that’s all you can do, great. But it has opened up a dialogue around what’s possible within the medicine.

Because of how we practice, it’s so unique that it gets pitched a lot at the VA. There are probably whole stories we’ll go down about our experiences with that, between dry needling and protocols at the VA and all of the things. But for the most part, people’s experiences with acupuncture have been limited. They don’t realize it can be different. That they can feel better. That they can actually process what they’ve been through, gone through, seen.

We’ve had some Navy SEALs, Black Ops guys that have some pretty hardcore stuff that have been able to just feel a little less heavy around all of it.

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MEETING VETERANS WHERE THEY ARE

Devynne: I think those clinics specifically have been just a cool gateway to conversation. And what’s really cool is we tell our vets all the time: you don’t have to come in and talk about anything. Which is what’s so powerful, whether we’re doing private treatment or the clinics. Show up if you want to talk, great. Otherwise, let’s just put the needles in, let you rest, and go from there.

It doesn’t have to be hand holding and therapy and all of the things, which a lot of those guys don’t want. They don’t want to come in and talk about their feelings. They may eventually, and someday, but they just want to feel better. They want less pain. They want to sleep. They sometimes are a little cranky. But it’s just yeah, it’s probably some of our favorite work. I know it’s some of my favorite work to get to do.

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ACUPUNCTURE BEYOND THE OBVIOUS

Devynne: A lot of people when they ask about acupuncture ask, what can I help with or do I have to have something going on? You don’t have to have something going on. It’s a great way to continue to be healthy and live in your best life.

We can be popular for pain relief. The joke back home was always pain and fertility. We can help you not hurt and help you get pregnant. But there’s so much more to the medicine than that.

One of the things that’s really become a specialty over the years is the mental emotional health and the life work and finding joy and working through some things we’ve been through in life. We can help with the back pain and the knee pain and the shoulder pain. We can help you sleep better. We can help you have more energy. But we’re really good with mental emotional health.

The mental emotional work doesn’t have to include talk therapy. There’s something about the way we practice and the way we’ve learned the medicine that is wonderful for people to just exhale around the things that they’ve been through.

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THE BIGGER QUESTION: FOLLOWING YOUR INNER VOICE

James: Yeah, I don’t know how much more we can explain. I’m realizing as you’re chatting through that, it’s probably important for us to talk about the work that we do more broadly and how that connects to personal decision-making.

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THE CONVERSATION THAT CHANGED EVERYTHING

Devynne: There’s a conversation I had before going to acupuncture school that was really pivotal. I remember going back and forth about whether it made sense. It was a lot of work. And you get there and you’re like, let me at least finish this out. Let me see it through. And then if it’s something I still want, we’ll go back and do the other thing another time.

I remember that conversation of being like, well, if you want to do it, why waste the time, the money, the effort, all of the things, if that’s just where you’re going to end up anyway? Why not just do it?

And that conversation was like, oh, that didn’t even feel like an option that was on the table. Not because I couldn’t do it, but it’s who works their entire life for this one thing that they wanted and just be like, I’m just going to go do something else. That doesn’t make any sense.

So that’s what I take away from that. It didn’t even cross my mind. All my friends, that’s what we did. You take the AP classes, the honors classes, you do the thing, you get the grades, you get into college, you go to the degree. We spent a lot of time making sure it was you’re going to school for what you want to go to school for. We had all the right conversations. So none of it was pigeonholed. It was still very well thought out. Until it came time to consider doing something completely different. It was just never a question.

I knew what I wanted to do from the time I was little. Or I thought I knew what I wanted to do. What’s really funny about the exercise science piece coming around full circle is now I own a gym, right? Like, we still get to do that in a different way. And that wasn’t part of the plan either.

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THE POWER OF FOLLOWING BREADCRUMBS

Devynne: That is probably one of the longest internal jokes I have about myself when it comes to making decisions. Any of the big things that have happened that really light things on fire, none of it was part of the plan. But there was this need, this what if, right? That need to lean in and explore.

Our work, we hear stories all day long of people who regret not taking the chance or not trying or not taking the trip or whatever that may be. And it’s, man, how would my life be different? That fuels a lot of the want to lean in, try, and explore all the things. Because I don’t want to get to that same place.

Even when we moved out here, it was like, we could always go back or we could go somewhere different. But if we don’t go, we’re no longer in integrity with what we tell our patients every day. The question’s been asked. We have to explore it. It’s all a very well, let’s figure it out.

We should probably clarify too. Exploring it doesn’t mean just throwing it to the wind and doing it. No. Yeah. It just means leaning into it and asking yourself. There’s a lot about what we do that’s about connecting people back to that inner voice inside of them that kind of comes out from your heart space. It’s like, hey, this is what we’re supposed to be doing.

The idea is that we’re either living the life we’re intended for, which will involve having some joy because that’s part of the whole process, or we’re not. If we’re not, teachers will tell you that if you’re on your path and living, you’re well. Or you’re ill. Something’s out of balance. How do we refine that balance?

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BRAIN VERSUS HEART

Devynne: The brain gets in the way because it’ll talk you out of things that your heart wants to do. It’s going back to my experience with going to acupuncture school. That was the experience. The first couple of treatments I had just pulled that voice forward. It was never interesting to feel this way because it was never, oh, I love the way that these treatments make me feel. I want to do this for other people. I absolutely loved the work that we get to do, but it wasn’t a, oh, I love this. Let’s give this elsewhere.

It felt like it cleared the way. There was just more clarity around it. It really was a what if. I remember being even a couple years into school and being like, I still know I’m supposed to be here, but I don’t know what I’m doing here. We had so many conversations around that.

Yeah, much bigger story because most of my classmates were at least 10, 15, 20 plus years older than I was. But when the first question came up of going to school, it was like, was it even possible? Because it was grad school and I didn’t have an undergrad degree yet.

So it was like, all right, let’s make the list. Figure out what those boxes are. Oh, look, I had just enough credits from high school and dual enrollment to jump straight into grad school. I still had to get interviewed. And I remember that process because they were not letting 20-year-olds into master’s degree programs on Classical Chinese Medicine. That’s just not the path that people chose. And it was yeah, it was just a different but yeah, those choices that we lay out are just follow the breadcrumbs.

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FOLLOWING THE BREADCRUMBS

Devynne: I was sharing that with a patient the other day. That’s how I think that I’ve chalked it up in my brain these days: just follow the breadcrumb and you get that one, you get to the next one, and eventually look up and here we are. We’re ten years into practice in a profession that I never really envisioned myself having in the first place. But it has led me to the most beautiful life. I love it.

It’s cool. So yeah, I think that sort of resonates with that whole thing. I remember that conversation between you and I remember you telling me: go to Florida if you want to go to acupuncture school. Go to acupuncture school. But I do remember the thing I told you was when I started sitting in a room the first day and everybody introduced themselves, they were all much older than you were when you started.

And almost every single person in that room had come across the idea earlier in their life that, hey, I should do this thing. I should go to acupuncture school. And every single one of them had said no to it. And they went on and did something else that made more sense, whether it was programming or something. Whatever that they all did something different because it didn’t make sense at all.

And I remember the message to you was: if this is what you’re supposed to be doing and you don’t do it now, it’s going to circle back. So if you’re meant to be doing this and you truly feel like this is your path, then why not?

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THE INNER VOICE

James: Yeah. Then, oh, and now we gotta tell your mom.

But no, that is it. It’s that inner voice to say this is what I feel like I was supposed to be doing. I think so often these days in our society we hush that voice and do what we think we’re supposed to. Yeah. We live the life that makes more sense to the people around us. And then we end up, boy, that’s a whole other train of thought. We end up living lives that don’t fulfill us.

But yeah, so there’s conversation number one recorded. We’ll edit and get rid of some stuff. But no, I think that went really well and got deep. So here we go. It’ll be fun. I think part of this is it’ll be interesting to see how people connect with us through this material.

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PUTTING IT OUT INTO THE WORLD

Devynne: Because I know part of our intention is to put this together in kind of a podcast form for people to listen to. Some of these little snippets may end up on social media. Who knows, a YouTube channel, like, who knows. We’re a little gritty at times, so putting this out into the world, I’m not worried about putting it out into the world.

But I will say, if you are one of those folks out there that are a little more scholarly or a little more stuffy about it, don’t waste your time telling us we’re wrong. We’re not here for that. Yeah. Classically, this is how we’re going to practice. Whether it aligns with whatever, but we’re just going to show up and share.

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[Conversation continues. Full episode available in audio.]